These days I've been doing research into Lorentz, all of that calculus around my toroidal coils, and then it struck me.
Lorentz doesn't give a damn about rotation. Lorentz is about current direction and magnetic field direction.
Therefore, we can remove Lorentz from any coil if we make it bifilar.
When we say "bifilar", the mind automatically conjures Tesla's pancake coil. But it doesn't have to be pancake. Any coil can be made bifilar just by duplicating the wire.
As long as current travels geometrically backwards along every geometrically forwards path, on the twin wire, we should have Lorentz forces entirely cancelled, regardless of the direction of the field lines.
So you can just wire a regular alternator with bifilar coils. But hey, will the amps still be there if the coils are made bifilar ?
For the amps you need to play with the impedance. But this depend on purpose of usage on how many amps you really need, also it is important if you let the energy flow out from your intended device or just want to stop there and waste it in a form of heat dispassion or whatever.
(12-17-2023, 09:21 AM)Classic Wrote: For the amps you need to play with the impedance. But this depend on purpose of usage on how many amps you really need, also it is important if you let the energy flow out from your intended device or just want to stop there and waste it in a form of heat dispassion or whatever.
In my project I have a different genesis of amps than in a normal generator. I don't actually know how a normal generator creates amps. I know the primary mover has to defeat the Lorentz force, and that's when power comes out, but I don't know if the Lorentz force is actually needed in a normal generator to create amps in the first place. Normal generators don't have energy production separated from energy usage. When you use it, that's when it is being created. I have taken a different path in what I'm building. I have seen amps in the coil at almost no voltage. Yes, I had to return the assembly to the engineers, will probably take more time to get it all done, but it will be done eventually, and I think it will verify my supposition. I didn't test a bifilar coil yet, but there were amps in the toroid.
I'm not quite following the logic. Bifilar coils cause drag when used on a generator just as much. Both coil's take the polarity that resists rotation. If they are wound together, they are in-phase. Connect them in series and you get more output with equal amount of drag increase. Reverse the connections so they buck, and you will eliminate drag by eliminating output.
Are you planning to the them in a special setup that is not standard?
(12-17-2023, 11:24 PM)Jim Mac Wrote: I'm not quite following the logic. Bifilar coils cause drag when used on a generator just as much. Both coil's take the polarity that resists rotation. If they are wound together, they are in-phase. Connect them in series and you get more output with equal amount of drag increase. Reverse the connections so they buck, and you will eliminate drag by eliminating output.
Are you planning to the them in a special setup that is not standard?
Why would bifilar coils create drag ? Since each wire is tightened together with its twin - so distance between is very small - and current goes the opposite ways thru both in every position along the coil, means that their exposure to the magnetic field is the same while having opposite current vectors, resulting in Lorentz forces cancelling each other.
Of course that actually a bifilar coil is actually monofilar, because at the end of he coil the two wires are connected, making it essentially one wire. This is what you mean that they are wound together. On paper, current goes one way : thru the first wire, all around the coil, then continues thru the second wire, around the coil, to the start. But geometrically, on the coil, directions are opposite. So if current vectors are opposite, then by cross product with the magnetic field, shouldn't we get opposite Lorentz forces ?
Since I ordered the coil core to be for a toroid, I'll go for a toroid, but I will experiment with a bifilar toroid as well.
Again, I don't know what effects can this have in a rather normal generator that relies only on induction. My generator relies on two different types of induction, and I presume that if I wind a bifilar toroid then at least amperage results shouldn't change. Probably, a bifilar solenoid or thick multilevel pancake should get even better results, I guess. But I began the project around a toroid and I intend to complete it first this way.
(12-18-2023, 11:01 AM)Jim Mac Wrote: If you series connect two coils that are going in opposite current direction, you get no output
But a Tesla pancake coil is bifilar. You may call it as series connected in opposite directions. And there is output. It doesn't matter if it's overunity or underunity. There is output. This was the example from Daniel's Inventions channel :
We don't need too much. We only need the coil to act as a coil while cancelling Lorentz. And actually ChatGPT told me that if I keep the number of turns when adding the secondary layer of wires, inductance is going up!
12-18-2023, 02:56 PM (This post was last modified: 12-18-2023, 02:56 PM by Jim Mac.)
Tesla bifilar does not induce current in two different directions. Current flows through first winding, then back to start then through second winding. But both windings go the same way. Tesla's pancake also experiences drag
12-18-2023, 02:59 PM (This post was last modified: 12-18-2023, 03:25 PM by Classic.)
So, what gradient are you going to exploit ? And why someone always try to cancel Lentz law and not trying to amplify Faraday effects. But depend on your application if you need more curent or more voltage.
I am not sure how to explain in a better way. If your desired load is 100% resistive you don’t need many amps, but if your load is 100% inductive you are likely that you need more amps than voltage. If you try to get both of them as high as permitted by components used than efficiency will drop unless you balance the load with the suppling circuit and use power factor correction on the load side where a voltage dependant resistor must be used with capacitors.
Let’s say you want to power a motor, for better efficiency use reactive power to lit up your lights.
But, we need to ask a question: where all the energy goes ? Is it true that is converted in a different form ? All of it ? Apart from heat dissipation. How can we explain that using series-parallel batteries setup allow us to reuse the electricity and we can use the same amount of energy many times, even hundreds times more in case of resistive load ? Shall we use a generator on demand only and let the electricity to go into a storage or back in the circuit after the load ?
(12-18-2023, 02:56 PM)Jim Mac Wrote: Tesla bifilar does not induce current in two different directions. Current flows through first winding, then back to start then through second winding. But both windings go the same way. Tesla's pancake also experiences drag
Jim, indeed current flow in one direction but when you stick together 2 wires the flow will pass against each other aka 180 degree phase shift. If the 2 wires are away from each other they do not interact.
Please have a look at patent NL1032570 Arie de Geus.
I guess f@xeconomist makes a reference to the phenomena where electron flow run against each other in adiacent wires (bifilar coils).
But, I don’t know about magnetic drag or any other effect as I am not very interested in spinning devices … and somehow I have a feeling the pure sine wave AC is less efficient than pulsed DC, because pulsed DC is bipolar and AC is unipolar
12-18-2023, 04:19 PM (This post was last modified: 12-18-2023, 04:21 PM by fxeconomist.)
(12-18-2023, 02:59 PM)Classic Wrote: So, what gradient are you going to exploit ? And why someone always try to cancel Lentz law and not trying to amplify Faraday effects. But depend on your application if you need more curent or more voltage.
Let’s say you want to power a motor, for better efficiency use reactive power to lit up your lights.
I guess f@xeconomist makes a reference to the phenomena where electron flow run against each other in adiacent wires (bifilar coils).
But, I don’t know about magnetic drag or any other effect as I am not very interested in spinning devices … and somehow I have a feeling the pure sine wave AC is less efficient than pulsed DC, because pulsed DC is bipolar and AC is unipolar
Indeed, I really referred to the electrons flowing against each other in adjacent wires. This is what I would need in my application, to kill Lorentz.
Why am I not trying to amplify Faraday effects ? Because I have ANOTHER source of amps. The coil is spinning in a unipolar induction field. I didn't test with bifilar, but I've seen amps in the toroid at a voltage below the multimeter level.
I want to cancel Lorentz because :
a) I don't want Lorentz fighting the motor to shut it off, which would stop the generator ; I also don't want acceleration because that would quickly put an end to the structural integrity of the assembly. And since current direction is the same in both phases, as the coil releases the flyback in the same direction as it was internally in the coil, means that rotational effects, if any, are continued from the power phase to the delivery phase and only made worse.
b) I don't want Lorentz to mess with the structural integrity of the coil wires.
So yeah, I don't know how bifilar coils could work in a regular generator that relies only on Faraday's induction.
