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+--- Thread: Why Virtual Rotating Magnetic Fields May Be The Key (/thread-35.html)
RE: Why Virtual Rotating Magnetic Fields May Be The Key - Shylo - 11-23-2023
Hi Jim
Could you not put more coils in there to get a smooth rotation?
You would have to reduce the amount of turns to make it fit but not much.
Put them at the 45' spot
Also how does the amplifier connect are your coils wired in series with one pair reversed for opposite pole?
When I was winding stuff it would take me days to get done seems like you do it in hours
Amazing
RE: Why Virtual Rotating Magnetic Fields May Be The Key - kloakez - 11-23-2023
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the videos and open development approach. I just saw your last video with the 4 coils in the stator and you were saying that there is a gap in the field. I think that maybe if there was an overlap in the coils, there would not be the gap. It may impact the field in other ways so this is just something to consider.
RE: Why Virtual Rotating Magnetic Fields May Be The Key - Jim Mac - 11-23-2023
(11-23-2023, 03:53 AM)Shylo Wrote: Hi Jim
Could you not put more coils in there to get a smooth rotation?
You would have to reduce the amount of turns to make it fit but not much.
Put them at the 45' spot
Also how does the amplifier connect are your coils wired in series with one pair reversed for opposite pole?
When I was winding stuff it would take me days to get done seems like you do it in hours
Amazing
Shylo- was wondering where ya been. 8 may work, but I am unclear on exact wiring for which phase with 8. The 4 configuration will definitely work, and I am pretty sure they just have to overlap in the center of the adjacent coil. As far as wiring, the 2 opposite coils all turn the same way (like 1 big coil). So in the middle and on the outside one side is North, one side is south. Once you have 4 wires out (2 per coil group) is does not matter which way you connect the AC or which way the coils are polarized. 90 degree and 270 degree both cause rotation the same, all that changes is the direction of rotation. So flip coil leads and it still rotates- just the opposite way.
Yea, winding is tedious and not too fun. So I just put on a podcast and get it done. These weren't bad because it only takes 2 minutes to do 100 turns around a salt shaker. The hard part was getting them into the slots.
(11-23-2023, 05:01 AM)kloakez Wrote: Hi Jim,
Thanks for the videos and open development approach. I just saw your last video with the 4 coils in the stator and you were saying that there is a gap in the field. I think that maybe if there was an overlap in the coils, there would not be the gap. It may impact the field in other ways so this is just something to consider.
Open source is the only way to go. I know at least a few people watching my progress are beginning to open their eyes.
I think you are spot on.. 2 coils need to complete 1 circle. Then we use 4 coils to make 2 circles and orient 1 circle 90 degrees from the first, so that where 2 coils meet is in the dead center of another coil. Then I think we will get a rotating field that is even the full 360 degrees around.
RE: Why Virtual Rotating Magnetic Fields May Be The Key - Jim Mac - 11-26-2023
Ok so I can dick around with solid state poly-phase transformers later. For now I need to test my theories, so I need Higher-Order Poly-phase generator.
Its coming along well. Here is the build so-far
RE: Why Virtual Rotating Magnetic Fields May Be The Key - Jim Mac - 11-26-2023
Ok so once again- the magnet generator build did not go as planned. The rotor magnets glued perfectly, and the gap and spin were excellent. But the output sinewaves were not as expected.. Maybe the gap was too close to the stator and the magnets didn't have enough distance to merge fields, but I got lots of small sinewaves created from each magnet, then 1 huge center spike.
This next part might not be understood to many readers, but here goes...
Since the goal is to achieve rotation in which the output phase is 90 degrees shifted from the input phase, it seems using 2 full AC polarities shifted at 90 degrees can not work.
If we take the 2 phases that are positioned at 0 and 90 degrees to create rotation, the remainder is 270 degrees to complete the 360 degrees sinewave. There is no position within that 270 degrees that will be exactly 90 degrees from each primary phase. 270/2 is not 90!
The only way I have found that could create virtual magnetic motion by using multiple phases, while retaining the possibility to have the output phase shifted by 90 degrees from all inputs is to use single polarity waves that are 180 degrees out of phase. (Like Clemente Figuera's setup)..
2 inductors powered with single polarity phases that are 180 degrees out of phase creates the same effect as dual polarity AC 90 degrees out of phase. At all times one is growing while the other shrinks. It should be possible to create rotation with this, but it's sure movement is possible. Then since the input phases are 180 degrees out of phase, the remaining 180 degrees of the 360 divided by 2 is 90! SO I think this is the only configuration that can attain that goal.
RE: Why Virtual Rotating Magnetic Fields May Be The Key - Shylo - 11-27-2023
Hi Jim
Not surprised your output was poor
Those magnets looked to be about the right size but the way you installed them seems out of wack.
I would think that alternating the poles would be the way to go and since there are 24 poles for the 18 coils you would have to connect the coils in groups of 3 so 6 coils per phase creating a3 phase output
Hugh Piggott built this years ago used it for his wind turbine
In the car alt you still have a gap between poles as it rotates since your trying to mimic it you will also need a gap
Just trying to give you some ideas
RE: Why Virtual Rotating Magnetic Fields May Be The Key - Jim Mac - 11-27-2023
(11-27-2023, 05:39 AM)Shylo Wrote: Hi Jim
Not surprised your output was poor
Those magnets looked to be about the right size but the way you installed them seems out of wack.
I would think that alternating the poles would be the way to go and since there are 24 poles for the 18 coils you would have to connect the coils in groups of 3 so 6 coils per phase creating a3 phase output
Hugh Piggott built this years ago used it for his wind turbine
In the car alt you still have a gap between poles as it rotates since your trying to mimic it you will also need a gap
Just trying to give you some ideas
yeah it was a failure, but the only way to configure them to get 9 phase evenly staggered is with a 2 polarity rotor. I was not looking for 3 phase.
So today I plan to perform and share the results of 2 tests..
I am making a simple rig of 2 coils overlapping on E-cores. And I will use dual polarity AC at 90 degrees to cause motion, then rectify each phase to make 180 degree single polarity (mimicking Figuera's wave). I will test both ways in regards to output and see which way causes how much increase to the input.
Output measurements are "Less Important" than the input results. More output means nothing if the source increased proportionally.
RE: Why Virtual Rotating Magnetic Fields May Be The Key - Jim Mac - 11-27-2023
SO I tested the E-core configuration in several ways. A few ways gave nice power output (double-digit watts) but no ways I tested were able to prevent the input from rising an equivalent amount.
Except 1 way- which is not even related to this study. Go figure!
When you take an enclosed core or toroid and wrap 1 coil around the entire core, it basically makes 1 electromagnet. Then just apply regular AC. I used 60 hertz AC single phase. Nothing special..
Now wrap a coil around one of the legs. We have a primary that does not have an enclosed magnetic path and a secondary that does have an enclosed magnetic path. When we short the secondary, it causes it's reciprocal magnetic field to travel within the core loop, thus passing through the primary in 1 direction, then again in the opposite direction. because the secondary's magnetic field cuts the primaries turns in both direction, it balances Back-EMF. The input does not raise when harvesting the power from the secondary.
In theory, this should also not diminish the magnetic field as we take power (assuming it was built totally efficient). I am not claiming it can produce more out than in, but the magnetic field should be able to be harvested again and again and again..
Perhaps a setup like this may be worth investigating
RE: Why Virtual Rotating Magnetic Fields May Be The Key - Shylo - 11-27-2023
I agree
I don't believe we utilize what is available
But we don't understand magnetism or gravity
That's what we need to learn
RE: Why Virtual Rotating Magnetic Fields May Be The Key - Jim Mac - 11-29-2023
So I want to try to create my polyphase using the Clemente Figuera resistor method, as it accomplishes everything I want. But I want to avoid the drastic steps between the resistors, that cause the stepped sine wave. So I have been thinking about it for a while, and I have an experiment to try.
If we could make a liquid resistor rig, the commutator could be a standard piece of copper that rotates through the liquid. Then the resistance will gradually change as the rotation occurs, as opposed to using jumping contacts which causes stair-like waves.
So I am going to try to print out a toroidal shaped container which shall contain a liquid resistor. I will be trying to use a slurry as a liquid to prevent splashing. My first attempt is I plan to use a conductive powder such as iron powder, mixed with mineral oil to create the slurry. Slurry. Mineral oil should allow conduction, and also prevent any oxidation or rust to form. It should also not evaporate.
The individual conductors that connect to electromagnets will be placed into the slurry on the outside perimeter. Then on the inside perimeter of the toroidal liquid resistor, I shall rotate positive direct current which will travel through a piece of copper and into the slurry.
This should create different resistance points, because of the variation of space at any moment between an individual contact and the power within the slurry. The slurry can be adjusted to attain proper resistance levels by altering the amount of conductive iron power that is used in the slurry.
I have not verified any of this, this is a brand new idea. But this may provide a way to replicate the Figuera resistor rig, but in a manner which does not wear down the brush, and hopefully operate in a manner which produces a smooth wave which eliminates the steps and jump in resistance that the regular resistance rig does.
It should be a rather easy test, so I will start printing tonight.