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Current Flowing in 2 Directions in 1 Wire
#31
Well, regarding that oscillation with those LED bulbs.   Since I fried one- I decided to bust it open and see what was in there.

There are microchips and components.  A whole circuit board inside that thing.

So you probably can't get that oscillation to occur by throwing a regular load in there.   I was probably wrong when I said it was doing it without switching.  

   
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#32
(04-26-2024, 07:18 AM)Jim Mac Wrote: ...Not quite.  The negatives stay separated...
Got it. Thanks and keep up the good work.

I'd be interested to know how the Lorentz force in the wires works out with these experiments. How the "single" wires reacts to other wires in the system and to a permanent magnetic field.
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#33
Hi Jim

You got me really excited 

Not to worry- back to drawing board

It was nice that you documented your work

My project slowed down due late delivery of some components 

It is with fast shipping from China ?
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#34
OK SO..  I am scoping the resistor in the middle like this:

   

I am viewing Current and Voltage in the Resistor.  Current is BLUE,  Voltage is YELLOW Trace.

First:  Nothing special, just to compare.  Ordinary AC circuit and the numbers:

   

Now I am inserting BOTH AC and DC at the same amplitudes.  The Positive of the DC source is feeding into the Resistor at the battery end.

   

Now the resistor sees virtually the same power.  But the AC sinewave got Biased UP to 1 polarity. 

But it gets really interesting when we start playing with the voltages and the loads.  I will get into that later (maybe)

But with the above, it seems power want's to AVOID or WON'T go 2 directions on the same wire..

So then we do this:  2 DC sources again.

   

And both NEW Bulbs Light!  Hmmm  (head Scratch)..  But that center resistor still reads Nothing..

So I replace all the bulbs with the same value resistors and configure it like this to find out.  And I take voltage readings on each resistor to figure out how the current is flowing and what path it is taking.. Just remember, the light bulbs are now resistors, but I left them Bulbs on the sketch.

   

We scratch our heads for a bit, till we see the path.  All the numbers make sense, and NOTHING is flowing through that shared Pipe.  UNLESS one voltage is higher than the other, then only the difference between the two can flow.  So in the pic above, the left battery starts putting out more current than the right because it has more load on it. 


So to make a final conclusion, IF current is flowing 2 ways at the same time, we should be able to separate them with diodes like this:  Then I should be able to measure current each way. 

   

Unfortunately, we get No Current on either sides when the 2 sources are equal.  Only when the potential difference is unequal in the sources do we get some current flow through the center, and we only get the difference between the two.

So is there any advantage in this?  Thus far it looks like No. But I still want to explore what happens when we insert power on to the middle line in various configurations.
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#35
Stuff like this is why it's so intriguing..

Ok.  Both primary batteries are set at 5V..

Then we install a diode on the center leg.  And we insert 12V from another separate battery on either side of the diode, so the 12V has to flow through the circuit..

Try to guess what happens.  What voltage are the 2 loads going to be?  I bet no one guesses correctly because it DID NOT do what I expected at all.  In fact, I can't even explain it yet..

But I will give some time to throw guesses while I continue probing this and why,..

   

Edit-  OK I understand why what is happening is happening.  It wasn't that difficult after all.  LOL
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#36
(04-27-2024, 11:17 AM)Jim Mac Wrote: ...

So then we do this:  2 DC sources again.

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And both NEW Bulbs Light!  Hmmm  (head Scratch)..  But that center resistor still reads Nothing..

....

Unfortunately, we get No Current on either sides when the 2 sources are equal.  Only when the potential difference is unequal in the sources do we get some current flow through the center, and we only get the difference between the two.
...

I refer to the above circuit: it seems to be a Wheatstone bridge and in case the new bulbs are more or less equal then the bridge is balanced so the center resistor can have only a small voltage difference across its connections.

The circuit with the two bulbs and fed by AC + DC sources could also be viewed as a kind of bridge and the voltage and current across the resistor depends on the voltages of the AC and DC sources:

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The two bulbs form one side of the bridge and two sources form the other side of the bridge. I think the behaviour depends on the internal resistances of the two sources and their output voltages.

(04-27-2024, 12:03 PM)Jim Mac Wrote: Stuff like this is why it's so intriguing..

Ok.  Both primary batteries are set at 5V..

Then we install a diode on the center leg.  And we insert 12V from another separate battery on either side of the diode, so the 12V has to flow through the circuit..

Try to guess what happens.  What voltage are the 2 loads going to be?  I bet no one guesses correctly because it DID NOT do what I expected at all.  In fact, I can't even explain it yet..

But I will give some time to throw guesses while I continue probing this and why,..



Edit-  OK I understand why what is happening is happening.  It wasn't that difficult after all.  LOL

Well, the left hand side bulb will receive 12V-5V= 7V and the right hand side bulb will receive 12V+5V= 17V.  The bridge works... Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
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#37
(04-27-2024, 12:32 PM)neomagnet Wrote: Well, the left hand side bulb will receive 12V-5V= 7V and the right hand side bulb will receive 12V+5V= 17V.  The bridge works... Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

Nope.  Half your guess is right.

You got the Right bulb right.  But the Left bulb does not behave like that.  I think when I reveal, this answers my whole thread

   
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#38
Well, I am open to learn.  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. 

For the time being I stand by the 7V across the left hand side bulb provided the internal resistances of all the 3 voltage sources are well under 1 Ohm or so,
hence the voltage drop across them close to their respective 5V and 12V.
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#39
The Left bulb goes OFF.  No current flows in either direction through the bulb.  And No current into or out of the left battery.

Can you figure out why this happens?
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#40
(04-27-2024, 02:58 PM)Jim Mac Wrote: The Left bulb goes OFF.  No current flows in either direction through the bulb.  And No current into or out of the left battery.

Can you figure out why this happens?

Unfortunately not.  Please tell.
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