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CEMF and Flyback
(05-19-2024, 11:01 AM)ovun987 Wrote: Really appreciate you chiming in, Jim. "My view is pretty much my own decipherings" is what I am most interested in...your particular hands-on view and current definitions. 

Are you able to share your understanding following the rubric of the above posted definitions/analysis of Flyback, C-EMF, and Back-EMF so we can have a (modifiable as understanding develops further) set in stone definition for these three terms when used here on Mooker?

Have an awesome day!

Well, I personally think it's a good thing that everyone has their own view. I really don't want to set something in stone that someone has to use the terms I do or understand it my way. For all. I know, I may be totally wrong LOL 

But the way I view it it dictates how my experiments are played out and what my objectives are. 

How do we create a system where the conjured or induced current can make it back to its coil without running through the main source and raising the input. 

If you look closely at the figuera setup, he did it by creating a loop inside a loop.  This is one of the reasons I am so interested in the figuera setup.  

When unimmortal ask the initial question. If one force could counteract the other Force, I think the answer is figuera set up.  He is not counteracting, but using one reciprocal conjured current to reinforce the second primary that is conjuring current in a mirrored phase. 

I do really think everyone should follow their own intuition. After all, I do not have a free energy machine to backup any of my beliefs. And I know for certain many seasoned experimenters think I am out in left field.  So be it LOL
My understanding and sharing is that Jim's analogy of the two fire hoses battling each other is correct except from my point of view is in the car ignition coil the flyback is some what un impeded it creates plasma as a spark and goes to ground. This type of coil is a unbalanced bifilar coil , with its magnetic potential not being used to its full potential. Work with nature " Electrcal venturi effect ". Capacitive discharge ignition systems create multiple sparks in one cycle event. Just my two cents and I mean no offense to anybody here , it's what I work with daily.
The sea of energy , the magnetic field and its flux capacitance is nature. With out it , none of this would exist. When a induction coil is energized it affects the environment around it. (Trifield Meter). When the power is turned off, not only did the local magnetic field collapse, but the environment surrounding it wants to equal back out.
Nature is of balance. I'm not sure if Radiant is proper , but will be the term I use to describe what nature is doing to rebalance it self. So flyback, cemf , are nature in control. Why fight it? Tesla gave the best demonstration of this , of how to use nature to man's advantage. Understand the "Stout Copper bar " aka hairpin experiment , you will discover the secret to working with nature instead of against it.
Here is a video of me playing with timing... you can see exactly where cemf becomes flyback

say we have just a 2 turn coil. When we apply a dc input from a source, as soon as current begins to flow, the initial magnetic field from each turn inducing the other turn, induces(generates) some reverse current in the turns that impedes the input. cemf. All only as the inputs current increase and magnetic field expands outward, with known magnetic polarity, the cemf also produces a mag field opposite of the input produced field. The input will always overcome the cemf, most likely due to resistance. More turns, more self induction, mutual induction of many turns, more resistance, the longer it takes to get to full current and full magnetic field by way of dc input. So there is a possibility that a pure super conductor coil, 2 turns, may not conduct at all. No resistance to reduce the effect of the cemf vs the input. I did say pure super conductor.

Just to be clear, cemf is current that opposes input current. Once you build a field with dc to max current and max field, there is no longer cemf in the system. cemf is generated by the expanding field only while it is expanding. When the input is taken away, the magnetic field collapse induces current in the same direction as the input current. flyback is a term used to describe crt electron beam once it crosses the screen, at what ever speed, then is needed to be brought back to the left side of the screen supper fast to create the the next line across the screen.

The ignition coil circuit is basically a boost circuit in crude form with points.. points close for a long period compared to when open. Closed puts 6v(1ohm primary coil in series with 1 1ohm ballast resistor) across the 1ohm primary and field has time to build. When the point opens the collapsing field only induces the maybe 10 to 15 thousand turn secondary to produce the spark. But the condenser is the main ingredient. With the condenser(cap) across the points, it keeps the points from heavy sparking and the cap and primary go into oscillation producing multiple sparks from the secondary instead of a single pip of a spark.

Hey everyone here is an excellent YouTube channel for some answers to your questions.

You can also watch Peter Lindemann’s

The image, taken from Peter’s video, is correct 6 volts opposes the applied of 12 volts and what you have left over is 6 volts to power the load. 
CEMF opposes the applied in all conventional permanent magnet motors I have seen produced nowadays.

There are ways to reverse the CEMF so it adds to the applied and does not subtract, so the opposite can be done as compared to a conventional pm motor analogy as described above. 

Dave Wing

Some ways to enhance the efficiency of your permanent magnet pulse motor…        
Thanks for the links guys, lots of good watching there.

What I was trying to show with the video above was where optimum pickup occurs when switching the generator coils, and how sparks actually show you where equilibrium exists.

Too early and the spark reaches forward and calms down once you've advanced. Too late and you get nothing after the magnetic field has collapsed and cemf begins building up again.

I'll make another video once I can capture more of the gen coils output as I'm getting 32VAC open and only 25V when switched.
Some ways to enhance the efficiency of your permanent magnet pulse motor…[attachment=1161][attachment=1162]
(06-11-2024, 05:49 AM)Dave Wing Wrote: I find real value here…when the voltage is removed can result in a CEMF voltage that exceeds the applied voltage and a CEMF current that is higher than when the motor was running steadily.”

That said CEMF is always there in our PM motors as long as they are in rotation, now if you shorten your pulsed “on time” so much that the CEMF voltage and current being generated  are greater than your power pulse, you should be able to see that there may be a point where the CEMF will then supply more energy than it takes to run the machine.

I am of the view that a pulsed dc PM motor should be built to have exceptional rotational speed, to maximize CEMF production. Then you need to learn how to properly direct the CEMF back to the primary power source to recharge the supply that powers the initial power pulse.

CEMF can be directed in flow any direction you choose within the power winding of your motor, it can be sent back to the supply or into the secondary battery. You have a choice where to direct you CEMF.

Dave Wing

Here is a very simple flyback circuit to catch it in a separate battery..


Now if you catch it in a battery or capacitor, the Lions Share of it is wasted.  It can be optimized MUCH better..  it doesn't have to be wasted.

If you watch my video you should see exactly what I am showing

But again, even in this video, A lot was wasted. Because as a capacitor is filling, ALL voltage that exceeds the nominal charge of the catch device comes out the negative.

In my opinion, if one wants to capture flyback, this must be taken in account

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