Today I replaced the transistors with some better ones, then I tried a bunch of circuit configurations changing transformers and caps trying to get a cleaner sinewave and getting into ferroresonance, but the most I coud acheive was a blinking lightbulb (kind of the second mode of operation described in previous post) and the waveforms were pretty wobbly and irregular - not like a sinewave with lower harmonic at all. It kind of wanted to go into ferroresonance but couldn't do it. But I noticed when operating in this mode it would drain the battery slightly faster than normal.
Then I just gave up and hooked the circuit to a 1500W inverter connected to a large battery. The circuit operated just as if it would be hooked to the grid (as in the videos), and the battery was draining faster when the transformer got into ferroresonance. I'm sure the 5 to 10 watts that the lightbulb was consuming would not replenish the battery if I would loop the output to it.
For now that's all, I will be heading in a slightly different direction in the future, unless someone has some suggestions to try... I'm all ears...
Dann
Hi Dann,
Thanks for the videos. I have a suggestion. Here is schematic that a friend showed to me. I tried to make it with junk I had lying around but in my ignorance I was using series LC resonance, not ferroresonance in the primary. I can see now that primary series cap should be for current limiting rather than LC resonance and should let enough current flow to fully saturate core but only for a moment. Results were interesting none the less. I'm keen to go back to it with a smaller transformer and bigger caps after seeing your holder replication. Here is a video of my experiment. I did not rectify output as in attached schematic but used two back to back mosfets as an AC switch.
09-07-2024, 07:41 PM (This post was last modified: 09-07-2024, 07:42 PM by kapierenundkopieren.)
Hi Sandy
Is this schematic the actual transverter aka solid state rotoverter? Just the other day I was searching on the internet for any info or videos abaut this, but couldn't find anything.
Will try to put it together tomorrow and report back.
(09-07-2024, 07:41 PM)kapierenundkopieren Wrote: Hi Sandy
Is this schematic the actual transverter aka solid state rotoverter? Just the other day I was searching on the internet for any info or videos abaut this, but couldn't find anything.
Will try to put it together tomorrow and report back.
Thank you for sharing
Regards,
Dann
Hi Dann. I don't know the origin of the schematic. It was shared with me as the transverster or SS rotoverter. I have not had contact with a successful replicator. Be careful because if it works as claimed the output will be significant (lethal). You are already playing with grid power so I thought I would share.
Sandy, thanks for the video and I was in the process of setting up a similar experiment. My thoughts were to either isolate my DSO with a battery/inverter DC supply or isolate the circuit power supply as you have. Because these kinds of circuits can be a bit dodgy with ground loops.
Your circuit looks similar to a hairpin circuit minus the HV secondary and SG.
I found this kind of circuit can be deceiving because of the energy balance. So power = volts x amps and by shorting the secondary were basically trading amps for volts in order to send a certain amount of "energy" past the blocking capacitors to power the load.
Imagine we have a series blocking capacitor which limits the series current but the series voltage is separate and relates to the series power. So we can send more power through a series capacitor by raising the voltage which also tends to reduce losses ie. copper/resistive losses.
We could then ask the question, is it more efficient to short the secondary as you have or just use an isolated circuit to pre-charge the series cap on the half cycle peak just before it discharges through the load?. I found there is little difference and some grid tie circuits do essentially the same thing. They add some extra charge on the hot side of a series capacitor which adds to the grid voltage producing a higher series voltage we see as power generation.
The kind of load is also important and LED's are not the same as a resistive incandescent bulb. I have run a series string of 40 1w LED's at 3x the rated voltage at a 20% duty cycle with no problem. It's deceiving because the losses are reduced which can give the appearance of an anomaly where none is present. It just runs more efficiently with less losses.
There is a lot of stuff to consider, btw I like your bench and mine looks about the same.
(09-08-2024, 06:54 PM)urnatural Wrote: Sandy, thanks for the video and I was in the process of setting up a similar experiment. My thoughts were to either isolate my DSO with a battery/inverter DC supply or isolate the circuit power supply as you have. Because these kinds of circuits can be a bit dodgy with ground loops.
Your circuit looks similar to a hairpin circuit minus the HV secondary and SG.
I found this kind of circuit can be deceiving because of the energy balance. So power = volts x amps and by shorting the secondary were basically trading amps for volts in order to send a certain amount of "energy" past the blocking capacitors to power the load.
Imagine we have a series blocking capacitor which limits the series current but the series voltage is separate and relates to the series power. So we can send more power through a series capacitor by raising the voltage which also tends to reduce losses ie. copper/resistive losses.
We could then ask the question, is it more efficient to short the secondary as you have or just use an isolated circuit to pre-charge the series cap on the half cycle peak just before it discharges through the load?. I found there is little difference and some grid tie circuits do essentially the same thing. They add some extra charge on the hot side of a series capacitor which adds to the grid voltage producing a higher series voltage we see as power generation.
The kind of load is also important and LED's are not the same as a resistive incandescent bulb. I have run a series string of 40 1w LED's at 3x the rated voltage at a 20% duty cycle with no problem. It's deceiving because the losses are reduced which can give the appearance of an anomaly where none is present. It just runs more efficiently with less losses.
There is a lot of stuff to consider, btw I like your bench and mine looks about the same.
You are welcome. I am not looking for efficency, I'm looking for practical OU!
Here is a comment from a member here on a YT video that explains his understanding of ferrorrsonance OU. I'm not skilled in math but basically we need to be actively reducing inductance whilst taking power out, without spending much as much power on the variation of inductance. The non linear part of the BH curve might be where the magic happens.
Kind regards, Sandy.
I'm sorry that your bench looks like mine! I am working at being more neat.
Hello Sandy.
I was trying to combine the transverter schematic with ferroresonance, but for now unsuccesfully. I can't get the effect of lowering input power like in your video, I think that you succeded because you were using series LC resonance. As soon as I get the ferroresonance to kick in, the consumption goes way up and the shorting on the secondary does almost nothing to lower it.
But since I didn't find a 1 ohm power resistor I had to compromise, so I used a 12V lightbulb instead (maybe that's the cause of my failure) and my PWM generator goes only to about 240kHz, so maybe that's an issue too - will try a different one next.
I still have a few questions if you don't mind:
- Is the transformer in the schematic supposed to be 1:1 ratio?
- The transformer secondary in your video is 12V right?
- What are the specs of the globe - lightbulb in your video?
question... so in all of these cases, when the input is cut, the resonance shuts down?
in the chinese vid, the resonance seems to die off, even with input still connected. granted, the die off with the load is still impressive. is it that his circuit needed more tuning to keep it going?
also, is the load necessary for the effect to happen? heavier or lighter loads work the same?
i will try some stuff with this. im not certain that it is ferro resonance that is occurring, but more just resonance of the circuit.
the more recent vid with the magnet on the core, i have done some work on solid state orbo experiments, of which adding magnets affected the operation quite a bit. not sure if that mag in the vid was strong enough to alter effects here.
09-09-2024, 09:26 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2024, 09:34 PM by Sandy.)
(09-09-2024, 05:36 PM)kapierenundkopieren Wrote: Hello Sandy.
I was trying to combine the transverter schematic with ferroresonance, but for now unsuccesfully. I can't get the effect of lowering input power like in your video, I think that you succeded because you were using series LC resonance. As soon as I get the ferroresonance to kick in, the consumption goes way up and the shorting on the secondary does almost nothing to lower it.
But since I didn't find a 1 ohm power resistor I had to compromise, so I used a 12V lightbulb instead (maybe that's the cause of my failure) and my PWM generator goes only to about 240kHz, so maybe that's an issue too - will try a different one next.
I still have a few questions if you don't mind:
- Is the transformer in the schematic supposed to be 1:1 ratio?
- The transformer secondary in your video is 12V right?
- What are the specs of the globe - lightbulb in your video?
Thx for all,
Dann
Hi Dann.
I was definitely operating in series LC resonance, not fully saturating core, but did not know it at the time. I suggested this schematic because it might be interesting with actual ferroresonance.
I did not use a resistor. (I intend to make some high power, low inductance resistors from ni chrome heating element wire for next round of experiments).
I don't know about turns ratio in schematic. On EV gray Hector would give cryptic clues about using a 1 to 1 3 phase traffo but I wasn't there for long and I have no idea if he was delusional or just a broken man. Decades on the FE forums would certainly break me! He certainly gave us what we deserved (very little). There was too much BS at EV Grey for me to want to be there long. Others here may know more about the transverter.
Yes I used 240v to 12v step down and 240v 42 watt incandescent globe load. Frequency did not make much difference for me. Duty cycle made big difference. I think mine was 80 percent plus, frequency dependant.
MY SET UP WAS NOT OU, the inverter power meter is not very sensitive. But maybe the set up could be OU with tweaking. I reached a dead end with it but I will try again one day with proper ferroresonance. My transformer was too big for the power involved. FE research is on hold for me ATM.
Another note... In the Holder video I would estimate that transformer if operating at 240v would have inductance of 5 to 9 H and would only need a few uF for series LC resonance. I hope that is all clear
(09-09-2024, 05:40 PM)magluvin Wrote: question... so in all of these cases, when the input is cut, the resonance shuts down?
in the chinese vid, the resonance seems to die off, even with input still connected. granted, the die off with the load is still impressive. is it that his circuit needed more tuning to keep it going?
also, is the load necessary for the effect to happen? heavier or lighter loads work the same?
i will try some stuff with this. im not certain that it is ferro resonance that is occurring, but more just resonance of the circuit.
the more recent vid with the magnet on the core, i have done some work on solid state orbo experiments, of which adding magnets affected the operation quite a bit. not sure if that mag in the vid was strong enough to alter effects here.
mags
Hi mags.
I don't know any answers except regarding magnet on core. Magnet on core here is a crude analog tesla meter (put finger on magnet to measure field strength)
Kind regards, Sandy
(09-09-2024, 05:40 PM)magluvin Wrote: question... so in all of these cases, when the input is cut, the resonance shuts down?
in the chinese vid, the resonance seems to die off, even with input still connected. granted, the die off with the load is still impressive. is it that his circuit needed more tuning to keep it going?
also, is the load necessary for the effect to happen? heavier or lighter loads work the same?
i will try some stuff with this. im not certain that it is ferro resonance that is occurring, but more just resonance of the circuit.
the more recent vid with the magnet on the core, i have done some work on solid state orbo experiments, of which adding magnets affected the operation quite a bit. not sure if that mag in the vid was strong enough to alter effects here.
mags
Hi Mags,
-When the power is cut, everything shuts off.
-In the Holder video the resonance dies off, because of the direct connection to the grid (there are surge arrestors or similar circuitry in the grid circuit that stabilises the voltage back to normal after a few moments).
-In my case the load is not necessary to make the effect, but if you load it too much it will go back to normal (in my case 10W to 15W bulb on the secondary is the max).
Also in my case (because I have an isolation transformer in between) I can keep the ferroresonance going until the transformer burn's out (i guess) - it doesn't die off until you spark the secondary again or turn the power off.
Also, I doubt the effect is any kind of normal resonance, because that occurs with a series cap of around 3uF in my case and the circuit draws minimal power in that situation.
Instead in my case with ferroresonance, I can get the effect with a range of caps from 2.5uF to about 15uF and the circuit consumes more than 10X the initial power.
Hi Sandy, just now I noticed that you have a power resistor connected in front of your capacitors, is this to limit the current? So that might be the reason I coudn't get the effect.
Can you please tell me the resistor value, so that I try to replicate your setup exactly?
