Why Virtual Rotating Magnetic Fields May Be The Key

[solarlab]

Hi Jim,

I can see what you mean. Returning the current is an important "key" feature of your device.

My thought was to use three seperate units, each phased 120 degrees apart using the controllers, to achieve
a Three Phase system, see the attached diagram. I'm having to do it this way on the new V 2.0 device that's 
still in development.

Hey, we both share the common trait of being wrong more often than not, but 1 out of 10 is still considered good!

SL

   

[Jim Mac]

Trying to wrap my head around it.  So it would seem this would still have 9 phases, but made from 3 units that each have 3 phase?

It sounds like Yes that would work, as each coil would be separated by about 20 degrees.

How would one make 3 phase with controllers?  Or even more advanced, make 3 phase 3 times all timed right?

So the Lingen uses these techniques we are discussing?

[Jim Mac]

I will spill the beans on my method.  But i will explain it as a mechanical commutator because its easier to convey.  My method uses this technique but with mosfets.

Take a resistive material and make a circle.  Lets say 10 ohms of resistance connected to itself.  Now run your source current Positive and Negative to 2 brushes 180 degrees apart from each other and make them rotate around the circle resistor. .  And always make contact with the resistor circle.  So the resistive circle is ALWAYS "HOT" and burning heat..

Now you tap 2 opposite sides of the resistor circle for each pair of opposing inductors. You can tap this circle as many times as you want.  You now have unlimited phase virtual rotation that is always EXACTLY equal and phased right.  

Since each inductor set is 180 degrees in the circle, the resistance of the circle is divided in half and we basically provide a parallel path for the current in the circle per each pair of EL-magnets.  So balancing is crucial.

The resistance ohms of your inductors must be exactly 1/2 the ohms of your entire circle resistance. So adding more inductors does not add any additional resistance in the circuit. Because every coil added is basically just providing 1 more parallel path for the current to split.

   

As I said- it's wasteful but it rotates magnetic fields perfectly with BOTH Polarities.

Addition-  I think it also fufills my condition of returning the current,  because the current from the induction must return to the other side of the inductor. And the shortest path will always be through a different coil pair on the same rig.

[Shylo]

Maybe that's what Figurea was doing
By using seperate coils on their own cores
There would be no cross over problems of magnetic flux??

---

That is not using a single core
Multiple cores isolate the field

[vantasner]

Air core will work for your proof, but you will have much better coupling with cores, some pieces like this around the outside of your virtual rotor -> https://tinyurl.com/mr37cz5k

[Jim Mac]

Air core will work for your proof, but you will have much better coupling with cores, some pieces like this around the outside of your virtual rotor -> https://tinyurl.com/mr37cz5k

You're probably right.  On the thought tho, when dropping an entire rotor armature inside the induction coil, wouldn't the rotor armature core now act as core for both the rotor and stator?

I have a setback like usual with the build.  The individual coil's ohms is way to low.  This core is pretty small and I can only fit 75 turns of 24 gauge on each peg. The current to drive this unit is out the roof, to the point that I fear my circuit will cease to work.

This thing may work better as the secondary pickup coil / stator.

[Jim Mac]

So been wrapping this all day, trying to figure out a system.  Finally making some progress.

This is the most complicated coil I ever wrapped.  This method ensures good ohmage, lots of turns, and I think it will virtually rotate better than other designs..  But the overlapping absolutely sucks..

I can not just wrap 1 coil then the next, because where they all cross will bulge 4.5" on either side on the higher numbers, making the resistance between coils way way off.  So I have to work 9 separate reels, making 20 turns, then switch to the next reel, 20 turns, and weaving around , repeat, repeat, repeat until I have hundreds of turns on each coil..

Hope the work is worth it at the end!

   

   

Edit- I am wrapping it like this to keep the polarities correct.  The entire core, I want 1 side North, the other South, divided in half.  If it is meant to mimic an alternator in motion, I think this is the design it must be.  A virtual rotating coil is not really rotating if we are not using both polarities of the coil.

[andy]

So been wrapping this all day, trying to figure out a system.  Finally making some progress.

This is the most complicated coil I ever wrapped.  This method ensures good ohmage, lots of turns, and I think it will virtually rotate better than other designs..  But the overlapping absolutely sucks..

I can not just wrap 1 coil then the next, because where they all cross will bulge 4.5" on either side on the higher numbers, making the resistance between coils way way off.  So I have to work 9 separate reels, making 20 turns, then switch to the next reel, 20 turns, and weaving around , repeat, repeat, repeat until I have hundreds of turns on each coil..

Hope the work is worth it at the end!





Edit- I am wrapping it like this to keep the polarities correct.  The entire core, I want 1 side North, the other South, divided in half.  If it is meant to mimic an alternator in motion, I think this is the design it must be.  A virtual rotating coil is not really rotating if we are not using both polarities of the coil.

I'm curious about the result. I keep my fingers crossed

[Jim Mac]

This may be all I can wrap on this coil.  it's starting to look like a football  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

The tips where the wires cross is starting to get too steep and wire is slipping.  If I want to wind all the way to the end, I would need to print side guides to keep the wires in place..  But there's no way I am taking this apart, so it will be tested as-is..

It may work out well actually because I still have somewhere between 4-6mm left on each stub which I can wrap a 3 phase pickup coil right on the same core.

I am not really sure if using the same core is good or not.  Should the pickups and the rotor have an air gap?  Or is the air gap only there on a generator because it has to rotate?  

   

   

[Shylo]

Hi Jim
I can't see it being a problem, like you say the gap is only there because it has to rotate.
The flux in the stator will still influence a seperated core with the same field, just not as strong due to the gap.
But I think you will have to wind 18 coils one on each tooth and connect 1 and 10 for them to work.
Since your field is basically one big magnet that mimics rotation.
Just my opinion could be wrong.