Why Virtual Rotating Magnetic Fields May Be The Key

[solarlab]

Jim,

Just thinking - if you want to include your "Rotor" diagram add that as well.

Since the center of the "Stator" is scrap anyway; a few more minutes of cutting
will yield both a "Stator and a "Rotor." (might be just loose laminations, however).

Material is either an exotic VAC (Vacuumschelze - more costly) or an M19 (or similar)
Steel. I can email the specs if you need them.

I want to try them both for my designs.

SL

[Jim Mac]

Thanks SL.  You are a good guy..

I don't think I am ready for that yet tho.  And it would be best if this thing could be designed with everyday junk that is sitting on curbsides ready for the trash man.  

An old vacuum cleaner motor may be already designed perfectly for this.  Tear off the rotor windings and wrap it my way, then use the existing clam-shell  single phase stator.  


   

The vacuum armature might be better than mine because the poles are way closer together, and I think it has more "metallic meat" in the center of the core than my hollow center / large spaced rotor does.

But I could definitely use some help with the circuitry.  I need switches that can work in either polarity (direction).  I am using H-bridges now, but it's a wiring nightmare because I have to control each Enable pin, PWM pin, on each bridge separately.  Not only does it need to switch Hot, but it also needs to have a way to isolate the negative connection when turned off.  I can't have the negative returning through the wrong coil..  So I only know 2 ways-  H bridges (P + N Channel MosFets)  Or Mechanical switching.  But relays wear out quickly and commutators have their own set of problems.  

Any advice on a better solution?

[Shylo]

Trying to upload photos     
Did it work
Apparently so I was using a set of rotating brushes on a commutator
It was more than ten years ago now
I realize that your fields never collapse I'm just bad at communicating sometimes
I was powering one coil N 180' away S
Your design is alot more smoother action
Sorry I can't help with switching I have zero electronics skills
But I believe your on the right path

[Jim Mac]

Trying to upload photos 
Did it work
Apparently so I was using a set of rotating brushes on a commutator
It was more than ten years ago now
I realize that your fields never collapse I'm just bad at communicating sometimes
I was powering one coil N 180' away S
Your design is alot more smoother action
Sorry I can't help with switching I have zero electronics skills
But I believe your on the right path

Your using 4 coils.  4 coils will rotate evenly with 2 sinewaves- 90 degrees out of phase.

You can get a stereo amplifier with 2 channels for about 15 bux on amazon that has bluetooth.  Then create the 2 waves with Audacity (Free) and bluetooth them to the amplifier.  

The 2 waves hook to each pair of coils. And it will rotate.

But your wire looks very thick, probably very low ohms.  The stereo amplifiers want at least 4 ohms per channel. If your gonna get back into it, might want to re-wind the coils with smaller gauge wire and more turns. 



Note- as far as using 2 phases- I am not sure how the return current will operate.  Will need experimenting.

But that 8 pole stator has other winding / rotation possibilities other than 4 coils.  It can not work like mine tho, because my wiring configuration requires an odd number of coils in order to loop back into itself to repeat the pattern.

[Jim Mac]

Here is my pickup coil plan - (first attempt). Since I have a lot of 24 gauge, I will be using that.  It is the same size as the primary coils.

I am starting off simple.  1 Phase 2 pole pickup.  The pickup coils will each wrap 180 degrees, so the entire globe will practically be covered.  Once done- I will find some thin metal to wrap the pole feet and enclose the whole thing.  

I think I can get about 400 turns on each half.  Then probably parallel them at the end.

   

The red wire is making this thing look like a christmas tree ornament.  Lol

   

[Jim Mac]

I finished 1 side and did some basic tests.  It does induct, but the design needs improvement.  Here is what I am observing..

The Problem:

The problem is the whole "make before break" routine.  It has to connect the at the next spot before breaking the old connection- or the field will collapse. A collapse invokes a magnetic disturbance and ruins the  rotation effect. But the action of Making before Breaking is also invoking a magnetic disturbance that is sucking the life out of the machine.

In my setup, each coil is 3Ω.  So when in operation, we make the next connection, and by doing so, we momentarily change the resistance of the circuit on both parallel sides. This resistance variation causes the magnetic field to strengthen and weaken as it rotates (caused by the momentary resistance changes), putting unwanted variations into the spectrum.

I am thinking of ways to overcome this dilemma.

[Jim Mac]

I may have a solution for both problems. The complicated circuitry, and the choppy induction from the connection points.

If I take my nine coil Christmas ball setup, and wind two coils around the circumference, that cross at 90°,
I could then apply standard AC current into the two coils that cross at 90°. These two coils will cause rotation inside them, which will induce my nine individual coils.

   

I should then get nine phase alternating current without any chop. And since the alternating current going in is smooth, my 9 phase output shell also be just as smooth.

Then I could use that nine phase alternating current to create virtual rotation on a separate nine coil stator.

It may sound like there is no need for a second stator, but I disagree. Yes, we could cause virtual rotation with a single phase in this manner, but the back EMF will not act like an alternator because we are flipping polarities at 180° on the input. But by using this method, converting that single polarity alternating current to nine phase alternating current, we are then correcting the negative impacts of the polarity flips.

Basically one alternating current source and my Christmas ball set up would replace my entire circuit and Arduino coding.

[dSquared1801]

I may have a solution for both problems. The complicated circuitry, and the choppy induction from the connection points.

If I take my nine coil Christmas ball setup, and wind two coils around the circumference, that cross at 90°,
I could then apply standard AC current into the two coils that cross at 90°. These two coils will cause rotation inside them, which will induce my nine individual coils.



I should then get nine phase alternating current without any chop. And since the alternating current going in is smooth, my 9 phase output shell also be just as smooth.

Then I could use that nine phase alternating current to create virtual rotation on a separate nine coil stator.

It may sound like there is no need for a second stator, but I disagree. Yes, we could cause virtual rotation with a single phase in this manner, but the back EMF will not act like an alternator because we are flipping polarities at 180° on the input. But by using this method, converting that single polarity alternating current to nine phase alternating current, we are then correcting the negative impacts of the polarity flips.

Basically one alternating current source and my Christmas ball set up would replace my entire circuit and Arduino coding.

Sounds like a hugely valuable simplification. Maybe by Christmas you'll have more to celebrate with than just the Christmas Balls!  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

[Jim Mac]

Sounds like a hugely valuable simplification. Maybe by Christmas you'll have more to celebrate with than just the Christmas Balls!  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

D-Squared!  I am pleased to see you here!

Edit-  I think I was mistaken..  If we wrap a sphere with 2 coils 90 degrees out of phase and connect them in series and use 1 Phase AC, the field inside would NOT exactly "rotate"..  It would be more of an oscillation.

We would need to use standard 3 phase, or 2 phases 90 degrees apart in a quadrature coil system. (like the video I posted earlier shows).

It really wouldn't matter which we choose, because all we are using it for is to establish the rotation to induce many phases, which we will then convert to rotation again.


On a side note- I snagged a free treadmill today off Craigslist to harvest the motor- but it was like brand-new and my kids won't let me rip it apart. LOL  Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.  Gotta wait till they get tired of it.

[Jim Mac]

Ok here goes my next attempt...

I can do this on my football coil, but I will have to unwind 400 turns of a secondary, and I may need that to experiment with it as the next part.  But to smoothly create the 9 phases with smooth AC, here is my plan.

I got a stator core of an alternator stripped down.  I will use it as a toroid with nice even slots to wind in.    I am going to wind 2 coils around the toroid (through the center) and keep the leads separate.  These coils will be the primaries spaced 180 degrees apart on the toroid.

   

I will then feed these coils individually with AC that is 90 degrees out of phase from the other.  My limited knowledge suggests this will create a rotating magnetic field within the toroid. (at least all the AI agents agree). I will then verify it with my compass placed in the middle. I will be sure to use slow frequency to make sure we have smooth rotation..

If rotation cab be verified, I will then proceed to wind 18 coils symmetrically and evenly spaced on the same toroid. Thus giving me 9 phase output (I hope)..

Finally I can use these 9 phases to feel another 9 phase setup (perhaps my football) to harvest the rotating magnetic field.