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Virtually Moving the Coil!
#21
(01-13-2024, 06:48 PM)floor Wrote: There will be no induction change when there is no induction to begin with O + O = O.

Try putting a small battery (1.5 volt D cell ?) in series with two LEDs (reversed and parallel),
in series with the long coil ?

Electric potential and current are induced within a conductor when there is a change in a
magnetic field that penetrates that conductor.

That change can be...

1.  An increase in the strength or size of the magnetic field.
2.  A decrease of the strength or size of the magnetic field.
3.  A motion of the field or a motion of the conductor either one,
in terms of the spacial relationship of these, one to the other (nearer to or farther
from) some part of the other.

If there is no physical motion in your device, there is no current flowing in the coil/s.
If there is no current flowing in your coil/s there is no magnetic field produced by the coils.
That current = O.
That O current produces O magnetic field.
That O magnetic field does not rise or fall in strength.
Therefore also....
That non existent magnetic field induces no voltage and no current rise and/or fall
by which a reactive voltage and current can be induced.

The device needs a seed current ?

Good Day Floor,

May I ask you to expand on this?  I don't quite get it.

So I had a Big Strong N52 magnet stuck to the core, exposing the whole coil within a magnetic field.  Obviously, some areas of the coil were in high-density field, and the further end in less-density.  So each loop of the coil was virtually exposed to a different degree of magnetic intensity.

The coil is center-tapped in 6 places, forming 7 coils in series, thus making 1 large coil. My thought was that by adding and subtracting turns of the coil in an orderly fashion without ever breaking the connection, the coil may induce a current.  

   

I am thinking my mistake was  I am not changing the magnitude of magnetic strength affecting any loops of the coil.  Each loop is staying in the exact same "Magnetic Heat Zone".  

Even if I shortened one side while lengthening the other at the same time, still none of the loops on the coil "feel" any magnetic change.  

Edit-  I now realize the act of induction depends on each and every turn of that coil actually experiencing a change in magnetic intensity, the coil can not be viewed as 1 object, but as many objects (each turn representing a separate object).  And all the voltages in each turn sum to produce a total output.  So having the whole coil move does nothing if each individual loop is stationary in reality.

Can you explain again how this "Seed Current" could help?
Reply
#22
(01-13-2024, 07:37 PM)Jim Mac Wrote:
(01-13-2024, 06:48 PM)floor Wrote: There will be no induction change when there is no induction to begin with O + O = O.

Try putting a small battery (1.5 volt D cell ?) in series with two LEDs (reversed and parallel),
in series with the long coil ?

Electric potential and current are induced within a conductor when there is a change in a
magnetic field that penetrates that conductor.

That change can be...

1.  An increase in the strength or size of the magnetic field.
2.  A decrease of the strength or size of the magnetic field.
3.  A motion of the field or a motion of the conductor either one,
in terms of the spacial relationship of these, one to the other (nearer to or farther
from) some part of the other.

If there is no physical motion in your device, there is no current flowing in the coil/s.
If there is no current flowing in your coil/s there is no magnetic field produced by the coils.
That current = O.
That O current produces O magnetic field.
That O magnetic field does not rise or fall in strength.
Therefore also....
That non existent magnetic field induces no voltage and no current rise and/or fall
by which a reactive voltage and current can be induced.

The device needs a seed current ?

Good Day Floor,

May I ask you to expand on this?  I don't quite get it.

So I had a Big Strong N52 magnet stuck to the core, exposing the whole coil within a magnetic field.  Obviously, some areas of the coil were in high-density field, and the further end in less-density.  So each loop of the coil was virtually exposed to a different degree of magnetic intensity.

The coil is center-tapped in 6 places, forming 7 coils in series, thus making 1 large coil. My thought was that by adding and subtracting turns of the coil in an orderly fashion without ever breaking the connection, the coil may induce a current.  



I am thinking my mistake was  I am not changing the magnitude of magnetic strength affecting any loops of the coil.  Each loop is staying in the exact same "Magnetic Heat Zone".  

Even if I shortened one side while lengthening the other at the same time, still none of the loops on the coil "feel" any magnetic change.  

Edit-  I now realize the act of induction depends on each and every turn of that coil actually experiencing a change in magnetic intensity, the coil can not be viewed as 1 object, but as many objects (each turn representing a separate object).  And all the voltages in each turn sum to produce a total output.  So having the whole coil move does nothing if each individual loop is stationary in reality.

Can you explain again how this "Seed Current" could help?

No problem.

The following is as much so for my own clarity in thinking, as it is for anyone else
reading this.

1. My idea may work out or it may not.

2. In electronics, induction is the stimulation of an electric potential difference along with
a resultant electric current within an electrically conductive material.

3. Induction only occurs when (during the time in which) there is a change in the magnetic field in
relationship to the conductor.

4. No CHANGE / or physical motion ... no induced current.

5. The relative motion between conductor and field does not require a macroscopic /
real world motion (as in waving a magnet past a coil).

6. The change/motion can be instead, the expansion and/or contraction of a magnetic field
surrounding a coil in which an alternation current is flowing (conventional transformer) or
a DC pulsation or other...

7. The A.I. says that the induction can be changed by changing the characteristics of the coil.
True that, but what it doesn't say, is that this is so, only if there is already an electric current
flowing in the coil.
... ... ... ... ...
Put a small current through the long coil and a load (L.E.D. s ... EDIT opposite faceing) on the long coil,
L.E.D. s parallel to each other but together in series with the long coil.

Now, by switching the shorter in length coil segments between the states of
bypassed
or
included in the circuit

currents will be induced.

Changes as/in
both,
inductance (expanding and/or collapsing magnetic fields)
and changes in ohmic resistance will occur in the circuit.

If a D cell battery is included in series in the circuit (seed current source),
One or the other of, or both of the L.E.D. s may illuminate due to the switching ?

Or read the voltage across them on the scope...
Reply
#23
Okay, if I understand this correctly, because of the battery, one of the LED's should always be lit even when not switching because the battery is feeding power through the 1 with the diode in the right direction. 

So now the coil is powered and has a moving magnetic field.  So the coil's field interacts with the magnet's field which causes the permanent magnetic field to move, thus inducing the same coil.  We want to see if this will induce to light the second LED , which would ultimately be sending charge into the battery.

How would this be different than rectifying AC feeding a standard coil and placing it in front of a magnet? Are we thinking if we then close the circuit bypassing the battery, the battery can then be removed and the LED's continue to illuminate?

Like a form of resonance, where the magnetic field of the coil pushes the magnetic field of the magnet, then the magnet responds and pushes back?
Reply
#24
"Okay, if I understand this correctly, because of the battery, one of the LED's should always be lit even when not switching because the battery is feeding power through the 1 with the diode in the right direction.

So now the coil is powered and has a moving magnetic field. So the coil's field interacts with the magnet's field which causes the permanent magnetic field to move, thus inducing the same coil. We want to see if this will induce to light the second LED , which would ultimately be sending charge into the battery.

How would this be different than rectifying AC feeding a standard coil and placing it in front of a magnet? Are we thinking if we then close the circuit bypassing the battery, the battery can then be removed and the LED's continue to illuminate?

Like a form of resonance, where the magnetic field of the coil pushes the magnetic field of the magnet, then the magnet responds and pushes back? "
... ... ... ... ...
That one of the L.E.D. s, is lit or not, depends on the voltage of the battery, the resistance of the coils
or coils and the type of led.

The led s are just to provide some load on the circuit. Something to measure a voltage drop across, or perhaps indicate by their illumination some thing of the amount of power flowing in the circuit.

The coil will have a moving magnetic field only when a / or if the small section /or sections of coil
are at first switched on or off.

If the coils are switched sequentially / as you have been describing....

This may be described as virtually moving (could be made to be circular / rotating)
magnetic field.

Depending upon how the sequencing of the switching on and then the switching off / bypassing of the sections of coils occurs, one will then have accomplished the varying of the inductance in the circuit
with out "moving parts". Virtually ?
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