Smart Drive Motor / Generator Build Log

[Jim Mac]

So there is another thread explaining the dynamics of this idea which I think is important. but this thread is for the impatient people like myself to get our hands dirty experimenting..  

This is a "Build Log" that other "BUILDS" may present data in.  But this topic MAY NOT be used to post ideas and thoughts if you are not building it and showing your progress.  And it "MAY NOT" be used to post other ideas.  

Ok so I have several of these motors, but mostly F&P ones.

The goal is to create rotational output with rotational input. And this motor may be able to be used as the generator.

   

1.  One model has 56 magnets with 42 coils.
2.  The other has 48 magnets with 36 coils.

Here is what I see..

Take the factors of 56 and 42. Find the possible phases that are a multiple of the amount of magnets.

Model  56 magnets with 42 coils- Can make 1,2,or 14 which are multiples of 56

Take the factors of 48 and 36. Find the possible phases that are a multiple of the amount of magnets.

Model  48 magnets with 36 coils.- can make 1,2,3,4,6, or 12 which are multiples of 48

So we need to preserve the mirror phase for this to work.  Or else it drags down.  

Looking at the first one- ( 56 magnets with 42 coils.). We have no mirror phases.  We have 2, but are missing 4. We have 14 but are missing 7.  = No Good!

Looking at the Second one-  ( 48 magnets with 36 coils.)  All the mirror phases are preserved!  2 mirrors 4...    3 mirrors 6..   6 mirrors 12..  

Reasoning-  We can complete the "Infinity Sign" on the output with either configuration- but the magnets on the rotor must be aligned correctly so then the mirror phase of the shrinking and growing align when the magnets are in the correct position to return the energy to the rotors rotation. 

So not only do we need to ensure that the number of magnets on the rotor is a multiple of the number of coils in each phase, we have to also ensure the arrangement can produce the mirror phase to return the energy to the rotor when the coil is aligned with a magnet on the rotor.

[Jim Mac]

Ok so here we go.  I collected the parts I need to start.  I have a custom windmill mount that holds the smart-drive which I will use as a basic mount for the generator.  

   

I think I want to do 4 phase to start, so I will have 2 phase mirrored.  It sounds cool to bring all 36 coils out to individual terminal blocks so I can easily change configurations, but that means 72 terminals and a Wire-Nest will ensue.  So I will try to wire the stator directly for 4 phases, so I have 8 output wires. And it will preserve some ability to experiment with 4 and 2 phase respectively.

So I think it will need to wire like this:

Phase 1: Coils 1, 5, 9, 13, 17, 21, 25, 29, 33
Phase 2: Coils 2, 6, 10, 14, 18, 22, 26, 30, 34
Phase 3: Coils 3, 7, 11, 15, 19, 23, 27, 31, 35
Phase 4: Coils 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32, 36

So the logic is-  Rotating magnets are creating the phases.  These phases are constructive which allows me to create Virtual Magnetic Rotation using the output.  Then power will be harvested from the Virtual Rotation.  This is basically what I was trying with my 9 phase generator, but it did not output much at all.  This Smart-Drive should be able to output substantial power.

[Jim Mac]

Okay-  took a bit, but I got the stator wired..

I think this should output 4 phase..  Each phase is measuring 11.7Ω

   

I got a treadmill motor and pulleys I can use to spin it, but first I want to get it all mounted and hand-spin to check it all out..

So on to the next step..  Mounting this Bia##h.

[Classic]

I am not sure that I understand what are you trying to do ? From what i see how you want to rewire you want to make a simple generator ? Isn’t supposed to be rewired as a motor-generator ? Or maybe your plan is to use an additional motor to spin it and possibly spend less energy to power than it can output ?

If what Merlyn says is true and can be done, this type of motor wired as 3 phase must be modified to have 2 phase to power itself and 1 phase to output … so rewiring should be just different connectios.

I couldn’t find such a motor to try and there are so many models that I don’t know which one should I look for as I guess they are all different.
Probably “smart” motor refer to clever power factor correction and the fact that 3 phase motors behave better with large variation of load which always happen in a washing cycle where the motor start and stop so many times and always the start is much harder than spinning bea ise it need to break inertia.

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It seems that I can’t edit anymore the text above. All i want to say I am not trying to outsmart anyone, nor ridicule … I am simply bad at communication. Please delete/edit if anyone is offended.

[Jim Mac]

I am not sure that I understand what are you trying to do ? From what i see how you want to rewire you want to make a simple generator ? Isn’t supposed to be rewired as a motor-generator ? Or maybe your plan is to use an additional motor to spin it and possibly spend less energy to power than it can output ?

No offense, good question.

I want a 2 phase generator that is backwards compatible for 4 phase.  I want 90 degree separation in a fashion where the magnets in the rotor are aligned to mirror the phase.

I suppose I could use some coils as the prime mover and others as the generator.  But I am going to just make a generator with this to accomplish the phases I want.  Yes, I have a treadmill motor to power it with.

I have theories that Lenz drag can be drastically reduced if the generator is designed correctly for constructive Polyphase.   So if I get this right, this puppy will provide me with those phases in a manner that is 100% capable of processing and using self-induction, back-emf, without the use of electronics, resistors, and all that..

You know how I was talking about the "infinity Sign" and the Ouroboros,  and the complications that arise from using standard components with respect to ground isolation?  Well a generator that outputs these phases "Should" solve all those problems for me to get my answers.

Edit-  Also, this generator will allow me to combine the phases outside the generator to make all types of additional phases.  I have some ideas how I can phase-shift the output waves to virtually any degrees I wish with respect to the input phases.

[Jim Mac]

I got the thing mounted.  But no motor installed yet to drive it.

   

Hand spinning this thing is not the easiest to do.  No way to hand-spin it fast.  I can maybe do 1.5 to 2 revolutions a second with my hand, which lands me somewhere about 100 RPM. 

The output looks like it sucks.  One phase (9 coils) I am lucky if I can get 1/2 a volt from 1 phase..  And current is just as bad.   Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

I am not sure why, as I know when they use these as windmills, these things can reach hundreds of volts at 2-3 amps output..  I am not sure of I did something wrong or is this to be expected from 9 coils in series..  

The force it takes to spin this thing is substantial compared to the crappy output.   Looks discouraging..

On a positive note, the phases do appear to be shifted 90 degrees.  but the sinewaves are not the nicest in the world.  Maybe because hand spinning is not too steady..

not sure....

[Jim Mac]

I see my error..

With 48 magnets and 36 coils, the magnets align with every 4th coil. 

I am not sure if this rotor / coil configuration will work to convert this to 2 or 4 phases.

[Jim Mac]

I do not think I have the right motors to get the phases I seek.  

BUT I remembered that Stepper Motors used as generators output 2 phases 90 degrees apart.  Then I remembered a head-scratching experiment I did over a year ago..  

Watch the stepper Speed WAY WAY UP and input go DOWN when I connect a load to the secondary of the transformer.



This is the exact effect I am trying to reproduce. Now that I have a better understanding of Poly Phase that I did previously, the stepper effects must be revisited as I continue to make a good 2 phase generator (which I am having difficulties doing)..

[Jim Mac]

The stepper motor above demonstrates the effect my theories are based on.   But the stepper method is not conclusive and can not be used to pinpoint what is actually occurring. As far as I see, we have 3 main possibilities. Possibly more.

1. The induced currents of the merger polyphase configuration cannot simultaneously oppose the change in magnetic flux in both induction coils due to the phase displacement, but yet since the phases are constructive, we can take advantage of the sum output of both coils while avoiding some drag that usually comes along with it

2. Eddy currents that are generated in the core that act to drag the rotor are being disrupted by opposing currents from the 2 coils that have a temporal phase displacement between them.

3. The Stepper Motor's rotor poles allow for the production of an output frequency that is much higher than any standard generator, and may be creating some resonant effect within the transformer's windings.


A new generator must be constructed with the same phases that operates on a much lower frequency, and the coil arrangement shall be able to be easily swapped between ferrous core and air core configurations.  A generator constructed in this manner which exhibits the same traits, would probably allow us to pinpoint the source of this anomaly with better accuracy.  Thus possibly alowing further capitalization on it.

[Shylo]

My guess would be a resonant effect
Just a guess